For those who cannot find a copy of this book, I can lend you one.
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For those who are not paying subscribers, consider joining us. I hope to stir some good discussion on the subjects that we will be tackling in this book.
Mass politics, though? Maybe as a PR effort. But weren’t both Fac and Com rooted in the belief that “science” and the human brain had triumphed over emotion, religion, etc and was able to plan everything and enact it by force of will without having to resort to profiteering capitalism and creative destruction? While the message was about benefits for the masses, these movements seemed to me as sort of utopian, grandiose and reliant on the planning and leadership skills of special elites able their fellow cadres.
"... events can spiral out of control when disasters such as the First World War happen (especially when you lose a war)." Good intro post. Eager to read along. Will try to keep up in the book.
Always a fan of the book club (many other book discussions are self aggrandizing and off putting). Just a minor footnote, Finland also had a Bolshevik revolution but was put down almost immediately (the often overlooked short lived Finnish civil war) that just reinforces the point that this was a memeplex that completely spread across Europe (pre-internet as well for all those ppl who love to blame the internet/social media for all their woes)
'The reactionary politics that followed the First World War understood that the pre-war elites shot themselves in the foot by ceding these masses to reformist and/or revolutionary forces. Fascism was the vehicle in which the masses could be attracted to reactionary politics out of fear of or disgust with Bolshevism. The rise of Fascism was a belated recognition that the elitist politics of old were dead and buried, and then mass politics would rule the day.'
Perfectly true, but surely the roots of mass politics extend back to the French Revolution and the revolutionary wars? Throughout Europe governments organised mass movements to support the ancien regime. Both revolutionaries and insurrectionary nationalists attempted to organise their own too. At least some of these movements were arguably proto-fascist to some degree, such as the Black Hundreds in Russia.
WWI itself was about mobilising the masses, putting then in uniform and subjecting them to military discipline etc. The war was, at least to a degree, an alternative to revolution at home. Post-WW1 mass politics developed, extended and radicalised the masses using demobilised veterans, injecting militarism into the blood stream of the peacetime body politic.
Commenting while reading, and I know you don't mean it this way, but you accidentally one of my pet peeves and liberals do this all the time so I'm calling it out
> On a per capita basis, Bavaria tops both its neighbour Baden-Württemberg and industrial powerhouse North Rhine-Westphalia. Germany’s largest and most southern state is an economic behemoth.
> At the same time, Bavarians have the reputation for being conservative in both politics and culture.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard something like this in an op-ed, _I'd_ have the highest GDP in Europe. I've heard it so much, living where I do. "Wow, Texas' economy survived covid while everyone else is grappling with business shut-downs and lock-downs. But it sucks that they're so conservative, we need to fix that"
People aggressively refuse to recognize causality in these observations, and work tirelessly to destroy the source of prosperity
Commenting while reading, and I know you don't mean it this way, but you accidentally one of my pet peeves and liberals do this all the time so I'm calling it out
> On a per capita basis, Bavaria tops both its neighbour Baden-Württemberg and industrial powerhouse North Rhine-Westphalia. Germany’s largest and most southern state is an economic behemoth.
> At the same time, Bavarians have the reputation for being conservative in both politics and culture.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard something like this in an op-ed, _I'd_ have the highest GDP in Europe. I've heard it so much, living where I do. "Wow, Texas' economy survived covid while everyone else is grappling with business shut-downs and lock-downs. But it sucks that they're so conservative, we need to fix that"
People aggressively refuse to recognize causality in these observations, and work tirelessly to destroy the source of prosperity
Very neat! I am new to the book club series, how does commenting work? Should I hold off on discussing the first chapter / not spoil anything until the next post?
Very excited for this series. The commotions around Bavaria and Munich in the early 20th Century are very important for people to understand. Without this they are often left confused and ignorant on the context behind events that come later.
Since they were name-checked at the beginning, just adding a few links on Mussolini & Franco that readers here will likely appreciate -- in the same spirit as this post:
Jun 15, 2023·edited Jun 15, 2023Liked by Niccolo Soldo
Oxford University Press publishes an extensive series with the title "A Very Short Introduction to..." (fill in the blank) that has I believe about 100 titles now. Almost every title I have read is excellent. You would be a good candidate to author one with your love of history and ferreting out the details never addressed in common knowledge. Just in what you have written so far about Bavaria gives me a clue about why Hitler chose the state for his attempt at a coup.
In that light I also think of the joyous faces of the public that welcomed Hitler...one can appreciate the idea of stability and security at last bringing elation.
[Comment: Normie timeline is too generous for Anglo countries - it is basically a war on the western front, against the UK and eventually the USA. Normies dont know (5).]
urbanization, combined with increasing levels of literacy and economic inequality, laid --> urbanization (combined with increasing levels of literacy and economic inequality) laid
The first thing that struck me was the befuddled reaction of party politicians, who seemed constantly on their back foot during the early days. As the months went by, and events turned to parliamentary and bureaucratic infighting, they were more in their element and easily outmaneuvered Eisner. Eisner and the councils didn’t have a deep staff to take over the bureaucracy, and call it the Bavarian deep state if you wish, left in place it hamstrung the radicals. American right populists are in a similar position. If they ever take over the guvmit, they’d be up to their nose in swamp water in a couple months. There is no shadow government to step in.
For those who cannot find a copy of this book, I can lend you one.
Hit the like button at the top of the page to like this entry. Use the share or re-stack buttons to share this across social media. Leave a comment if the mood strikes you to do so.
For those who are not paying subscribers, consider joining us. I hope to stir some good discussion on the subjects that we will be tackling in this book.
Love the normie timeline!
Mass politics, though? Maybe as a PR effort. But weren’t both Fac and Com rooted in the belief that “science” and the human brain had triumphed over emotion, religion, etc and was able to plan everything and enact it by force of will without having to resort to profiteering capitalism and creative destruction? While the message was about benefits for the masses, these movements seemed to me as sort of utopian, grandiose and reliant on the planning and leadership skills of special elites able their fellow cadres.
"... events can spiral out of control when disasters such as the First World War happen (especially when you lose a war)." Good intro post. Eager to read along. Will try to keep up in the book.
Always a fan of the book club (many other book discussions are self aggrandizing and off putting). Just a minor footnote, Finland also had a Bolshevik revolution but was put down almost immediately (the often overlooked short lived Finnish civil war) that just reinforces the point that this was a memeplex that completely spread across Europe (pre-internet as well for all those ppl who love to blame the internet/social media for all their woes)
Looking forward to it!
excited to kick this one off
outstanding post. This is the kind of post that warrants a subscription. I learned a lot.
'The reactionary politics that followed the First World War understood that the pre-war elites shot themselves in the foot by ceding these masses to reformist and/or revolutionary forces. Fascism was the vehicle in which the masses could be attracted to reactionary politics out of fear of or disgust with Bolshevism. The rise of Fascism was a belated recognition that the elitist politics of old were dead and buried, and then mass politics would rule the day.'
Perfectly true, but surely the roots of mass politics extend back to the French Revolution and the revolutionary wars? Throughout Europe governments organised mass movements to support the ancien regime. Both revolutionaries and insurrectionary nationalists attempted to organise their own too. At least some of these movements were arguably proto-fascist to some degree, such as the Black Hundreds in Russia.
WWI itself was about mobilising the masses, putting then in uniform and subjecting them to military discipline etc. The war was, at least to a degree, an alternative to revolution at home. Post-WW1 mass politics developed, extended and radicalised the masses using demobilised veterans, injecting militarism into the blood stream of the peacetime body politic.
At leas that is the way it seems to me.
Commenting while reading, and I know you don't mean it this way, but you accidentally one of my pet peeves and liberals do this all the time so I'm calling it out
> On a per capita basis, Bavaria tops both its neighbour Baden-Württemberg and industrial powerhouse North Rhine-Westphalia. Germany’s largest and most southern state is an economic behemoth.
> At the same time, Bavarians have the reputation for being conservative in both politics and culture.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard something like this in an op-ed, _I'd_ have the highest GDP in Europe. I've heard it so much, living where I do. "Wow, Texas' economy survived covid while everyone else is grappling with business shut-downs and lock-downs. But it sucks that they're so conservative, we need to fix that"
People aggressively refuse to recognize causality in these observations, and work tirelessly to destroy the source of prosperity
Commenting while reading, and I know you don't mean it this way, but you accidentally one of my pet peeves and liberals do this all the time so I'm calling it out
> On a per capita basis, Bavaria tops both its neighbour Baden-Württemberg and industrial powerhouse North Rhine-Westphalia. Germany’s largest and most southern state is an economic behemoth.
> At the same time, Bavarians have the reputation for being conservative in both politics and culture.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard something like this in an op-ed, _I'd_ have the highest GDP in Europe. I've heard it so much, living where I do. "Wow, Texas' economy survived covid while everyone else is grappling with business shut-downs and lock-downs. But it sucks that they're so conservative, we need to fix that"
People aggressively refuse to recognize causality in these observations, and work tirelessly to destroy the source of prosperity
Very neat! I am new to the book club series, how does commenting work? Should I hold off on discussing the first chapter / not spoil anything until the next post?
Very excited for this series. The commotions around Bavaria and Munich in the early 20th Century are very important for people to understand. Without this they are often left confused and ignorant on the context behind events that come later.
Since they were name-checked at the beginning, just adding a few links on Mussolini & Franco that readers here will likely appreciate -- in the same spirit as this post:
Angelo Codevilla on Mussolini: https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/the-original-fascist/
Stanley Payne on Franco: https://www.firstthings.com/author/stanley-g-payne
Charles Haywood on Franco: https://theworthyhouse.com/2019/04/16/on-francisco-franco/
Oxford University Press publishes an extensive series with the title "A Very Short Introduction to..." (fill in the blank) that has I believe about 100 titles now. Almost every title I have read is excellent. You would be a good candidate to author one with your love of history and ferreting out the details never addressed in common knowledge. Just in what you have written so far about Bavaria gives me a clue about why Hitler chose the state for his attempt at a coup.
In that light I also think of the joyous faces of the public that welcomed Hitler...one can appreciate the idea of stability and security at last bringing elation.
This book was an excellent choice. It’s a good read and worth the investment of time.
[Comment: Normie timeline is too generous for Anglo countries - it is basically a war on the western front, against the UK and eventually the USA. Normies dont know (5).]
urbanization, combined with increasing levels of literacy and economic inequality, laid --> urbanization (combined with increasing levels of literacy and economic inequality) laid
The first thing that struck me was the befuddled reaction of party politicians, who seemed constantly on their back foot during the early days. As the months went by, and events turned to parliamentary and bureaucratic infighting, they were more in their element and easily outmaneuvered Eisner. Eisner and the councils didn’t have a deep staff to take over the bureaucracy, and call it the Bavarian deep state if you wish, left in place it hamstrung the radicals. American right populists are in a similar position. If they ever take over the guvmit, they’d be up to their nose in swamp water in a couple months. There is no shadow government to step in.